Sarah Koenig explains why 'Serial' season 3 will be different

"It took us a while to figure out what we were doing, then all of the sudden, it just sort of clicked in."

"It took us a while to figure out what we were doing, then all of the sudden, it just sort of clicked in."

Sarah Koenig explains why 'Serial' season 3 will be different

"It took us a while to figure out what we were doing, then all of the sudden, it just sort of clicked in."

Back before there was "Caliphate" or "Slow Burn" or many of the podcasts you probably have downloaded right now, there was "Serial," the investigative serialized podcast from Sarah Koenig and Julie Snyder. Narrated by Koenig, "Serial" became the first mega-hit in the podcast world (it's been downloaded more than 340 million times) and was the first podcast ever to win a Peabody Award. The first season gripped audiences with the case of Adnan Syed; the second was a look into the court-martial of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl.Now, "Serial" is officially back with its third season, and this time it's tackling the less "flashy" side of the criminal justice system. Koenig, along with her co-reporter Emmanuel Dzotsi, spent more than a year inside Cleveland's criminal courts, learning the ins and outs of cases. The first two episodes will drop on Sept. 20, with new episodes released each Thursday after that (though you can listen to a trailer right now). Below, Koenig talks to ELLE.com about the inspiration behind this year's season, what it's like to be podcast famous, and the instrumental partnership that makes "Serial" what it is.How did you decide on this topic for season 3?Sarah Koenig: I have to rewind my head like, "What were we thinking?" One answer is that … we did season 1 and it was about this case and, in some ways, it was a story about: Did this person do this or did they not? A more interesting question to me was: What is this trial and what does it mean and how is our system working? And what we realized kind of at the end was, I think it’s hard to say based on one case, and especially one case that’s not your typical . wasn’t the usual kind of defendant that you see. He has no criminal record. He has this private attorney. This kid goes to trial and has, not one, but two trials, and they last a long time. And some of that is sort of what’s really happening in our system, all day long in our courthouses.Julie , my partner, had read this book by Steve Bogira called "Courtroom 302." He spends a year inside a courtroom in Chicago. We all read it, and we were like, "It’d be cool if we could do something like that for radio." So that’s kind of what we set out to do. Let’s see if we can get our arms around the system in a bigger way, by looking at smaller, less flashy cases, more the day-to-day grind of the courts. What would we learn?It sounds like you'll be telling many stories within the court, as opposed to one longer story.Right, it is not one single case.Is the format going to be the same as before? How does it differ from past seasons?I guess it is different in that, if you’re a purist in terms of what a serial actually is, this is not a pure serial. It’s not one story that’s continuing over time. But in every other way, I think you’re going to recognize that it’s "Serial." Also, some of the stories do last more than one episode ... so people do come back and their cases come back, but they’re not so tightly linked. There’s one episode that’s about this one judge and what his courtroom is like, and there’s another episode that’s inside the prosecutor’s office. Other ones are more about the actual criminal, a specific criminal case. It’s a mix of things, which was hard, because we didn’t know what we were looking for. When we went, we were like, "I’m just going to sit here and wander around and listen and see what I see," which you think would be like, "Oh that’s so freeing, so much liberty," but it was terrifying because you’re like, "I don’t know what my story is. What’s my story? What is this, what is this, what is this?" So it took us a while to figure out what we were doing. Then all of the sudden, it just sort of clicked in.I read that you once said people might not like season 2 as much as season 1. Do you think people will like season 3? I don’t think I said people wouldn’t like season 2. Season 2 has a piece of my heart. Season 3 is very close to my heart. The stories are really good, and we’re really excited to tell them to people. Then again … if you’re looking for a murder mystery, this is not it.At the end of the day, you can’t worry about it because it’ll make you nuts. You’re either going to do the stories you want to do or you’re going to do the thing you know will be some sort of pop culture sensation. I suppose if you hit gold then both of those come together, but whatever. We don’t worry about it because you can’t.I really want to ask about your partnership with Julie. I love seeing two women dominate in this arena. What is that like for you? What does she help bring out?"Serial" doesn’t exist without Julie. I honestly think that she’s the best radio editor in the world. Her talent is so strong and so specific that it’s hard for me to actually articulate. She’s the one who we’re sort of dumping all of our reporting back at as it’s happening. She’s the one that’s processing all of that information. And then at the end, we all come together, and she’s the one—we’re all doing it—but she’s the one that’s like, "Wait. I see it. I see what this could be," in a way that none of the rest of us are quite capable of doing. She just has an extraordinary narrative talent. I definitely can’t do what I do without Julie. I don’t know if she feels the same way about me. Honestly, I don’t think she does because she can do her thing with anybody, but I can’t do my thing with anybody else.So, what’s it been like to be Sarah Koenig in the last couple of years?Busy in a good way, in a way entirely of my own choosing, especially the last couple of years because I was going back and forth to Cleveland. I have two kids, who are not babies or anything, but I like to be home with my kids. I think, like many busy, working people, that was a constant push-pull. I know this is the most boring answer I could possibly give, but it’s real. My life is a constant family, work, family, work, family, work and trying to figure that out. And it’s not easy. I have a very understanding family. If whether or not it’s glamorous, the answer is no. . Not at all.So the life of a big time podcaster isn’t all limousines and…No, no. Very grubby. This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Now, "Serial" is officially back with its third season, and this time it's tackling the less "flashy" side of the criminal justice system. Koenig, along with her co-reporter Emmanuel Dzotsi, spent more than a year inside Cleveland's criminal courts, learning the ins and outs of cases. The first two episodes will drop on Sept. 20, with new episodes released each Thursday after that (though you can listen to a trailer ). Below, Koenig talks to ELLE.com about the inspiration behind this year's season, what it's like to be podcast famous, and the instrumental partnership that makes "Serial" what it is.

How did you decide on this topic for season 3?

Sarah Koenig: I have to rewind my head like, "What were we thinking?" One answer is that … we did season 1 and it was about this case and, in some ways, it was a story about: Did this person do this or did they not? A more interesting question to me was: What is this trial and what does it mean and how is our system working? And what we realized kind of at the end was, I think it’s hard to say based on one case, and especially one case that’s not your typical [case]. [Syed] wasn’t the usual kind of defendant that you see. He has no criminal record. He has this private attorney. This kid goes to trial and has, not one, but two trials, and they last a long time. And some of that is sort of what’s really happening in our system, all day long in our courthouses.

Julie [Snyder], my partner, had read this book by Steve Bogira called "." He spends a year inside a courtroom in Chicago. We all read it, and we were like, "It’d be cool if we could do something like that for radio." So that’s kind of what we set out to do. Let’s see if we can get our arms around the system in a bigger way, by looking at smaller, less flashy cases, more the day-to-day grind of the courts. What would we learn?

It sounds like you'll be telling many stories within the court, as opposed to one longer story.

Right, it is not one single case.

Is the format going to be the same as before? How does it differ from past seasons?

I guess it is different in that, if you’re a purist in terms of what a serial actually is, this is not a pure serial. It’s not one story that’s continuing over time. But in every other way, I think you’re going to recognize that it’s "Serial." Also, some of the stories do last more than one episode ... so people do come back and their cases come back, but they’re not so tightly linked. There’s one episode that’s about this one judge and what his courtroom is like, and there’s another episode that’s inside the prosecutor’s office. Other ones are more about the actual criminal, a specific criminal case. It’s a mix of things, which was hard, because we didn’t know what we were looking for. When we went, we were like, "I’m just going to sit here and wander around and listen and see what I see," which you think would be like, "Oh that’s so freeing, so much liberty," but it was terrifying because you’re like, "I don’t know what my story is. What’s my story? What is this, what is this, what is this?" So it took us a while to figure out what we were doing. Then all of the sudden, it just sort of clicked in.

I that you once said people might not like season 2 as much as season 1. Do you think people will like season 3?

[Laughs] I don’t think I said people wouldn’t like season 2. Season 2 has a piece of my heart. Season 3 is very close to my heart. The stories are really good, and we’re really excited to tell them to people. Then again … if you’re looking for a murder mystery, this is not it.

At the end of the day, you can’t worry about it because it’ll make you nuts. You’re either going to do the stories you want to do or you’re going to do the thing you know will be some sort of pop culture sensation. I suppose if you hit gold then both of those come together, but whatever. We don’t worry about it because you can’t.

I really want to ask about your partnership with Julie. I love seeing two women dominate in this arena. What is that like for you? What does she help bring out?

"Serial" doesn’t exist without Julie. I honestly think that she’s the best radio editor in the world. Her talent is so strong and so specific that it’s hard for me to actually articulate. She’s the one who we’re sort of dumping all of our reporting back at as it’s happening. She’s the one that’s processing all of that information. And then at the end, we all come together, and she’s the one—we’re all doing it—but she’s the one that’s like, "Wait. I see it. I see what this could be," in a way that none of the rest of us are quite capable of doing. She just has an extraordinary narrative talent. I definitely can’t do what I do without Julie. I don’t know if she feels the same way about me. Honestly, I don’t think she does because she can do her thing with anybody, but I can’t do my thing with anybody else.

So, what’s it been like to be Sarah Koenig in the last couple of years?

Busy in a good way, in a way entirely of my own choosing, especially the last couple of years because I was going back and forth to Cleveland. I have two kids, who are not babies or anything, but I like to be home with my kids. I think, like many busy, working people, that was a constant push-pull. I know this is the most boring answer I could possibly give, but it’s real. My life is a constant family, work, family, work, family, work and trying to figure that out. And it’s not easy. I have a very understanding family. If [the question is] whether or not it’s glamorous, the answer is no. [Laughs]. Not at all.

So the life of a big time podcaster isn’t all limousines and…

No, no. Very grubby. [Laughs]

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

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