House Jan. 6 witness says Trump was 'detached from reality' over 2020 election

you were on the night of the election november the third, I was at the White House, you know where specifically, over the course of that night you spent your time within the White House. There was an event that was organized in the residents. So I moved between um the residents *** room sort of off the residents um where some family members were. I took it, the president was upstairs in the residence, he was upstairs. I was, we were kind of on the first floor, so not upstairs with with uh mostly with Ivanka and her brothers and and *** couple other people who would be coming in and out. Can you just describe the atmosphere? What were people expecting that night when you got to the White House? I think that there was typically for people who show up there um on election night, it's going to self select, more positive environment. I think people were *** little bit nervous not knowing what was gonna happen with the red wave or the red mirage as the debate was being carried out. The Fox news decision desk is calling Arizona for joe biden. That is *** big get for the biden campaign. Arizona is called. Do you remember that? I do. What do you remember happening where you were when Arizona was called? I uh there was *** surprise at the call who was surprised most most everyone in the room. Were you being one of them? Yes. Did that shift the atmosphere? The attitude in the White House completely. How so can you describe that? Because Fox News was the first one to go out and say that. So was it anger kind of directed towards Fox News for making *** call more so than disappointment that maybe the campaign lost Arizona all the above until both anger and disappointment. Both disappointed with Fox and concerned that maybe our data or our numbers weren't accurate. Were you in the White House residents during the sort of past midnight into the early morning hours of november 4th? Yes. So sure it went over beyond midnight. Yes. Do you remember Rudy Giuliani being at the White House on election night and into the early hours the next morning? I do. What do you remember about when he came? Um he he was there were I had heard that he was upstairs, you know in that aforementioned reception area and he was looking to talk to the President and it was suggested instead that he'd come talk uh to several of us. Um Down off the map. You said that Mr you have heard that Mr Giuliani wanted to talk to the President and then he was directed your way, did you end up talking to Mr Giuliani when he was directed? I did. What was that conversation? *** lot of conversations were directed my way. *** few of us myself, Jason miller Justin clark and Mark Meadows gathered um in *** room off the map room uh to to listen uh to to whatever Rudy presumably wanted to say to the President. Was there anyone in that conversation? Who in your observation had had had too much to drink. Uh like Mayor Giuliani, tell me more about that. What was your observation about his potential intoxication during that that discussion about what the president should say when he addressed the nation on election night in the mirror was definitely intoxicated. But I do not um no his level of intoxication when he spoke with the President, for example, part of any discussions with the people I mentioned, Mr Stepien, Mr Meadows or anyone else about whether the president should make any sort of speech on election night? I mean I I spoke to the President, they may have been present, but President spoke to the president several times that night. There are suggestions. Bye I believe was Mayor Giuliani to go and declare victory and say that we want it outright. It was far too early to be making any calls like that. Um, ballots, ballots were still being counted, ballots were still gonna be accounted for days. Um and it was far too early to be making any propagation like that. Remember saying that to the best of my memory and I was saying that we should not go and declare victory until we had *** better sense of the numbers. Okay, can you be more specific about that conversation in particular what Mayor Giuliani said, your response and then anybody else in the rooms response? I think effectively Mayor Giuliani was saying, we want it, they're stealing it from us where all the votes come from. We need to go say that we won. And essentially, that anyone who didn't agree with that position was being weak. What was your view at the time as to what he should or shouldn't say? I don't know that I had *** firm view, um, as to what he should say in that circumstance, the results were still being counted. Um, it was becoming clear that the race would not be called um, on election night. My belief, my recommendation was to say that votes were still being counted. It's too early to, to, to tell, um, too early to call the race. But, um, you know, we, uh, proud of the race we run, we ran. Um, and we, you know, think we're think we're in *** good position. Um, and we'll have more to say about this, you know, the next day or the next day whenever we had something to say. And did anybody who was *** part of that conversation disagree with your message? Yes. Who is that? The President disagreed with that? I don't recall the particular words. He thought I was wrong. He told me so, and, you know, that they were going to, you know, go into in ***, you know, he was going to going in different directions. This is *** fraud on the american public. This is an embarrassment to our country. We were getting ready to win this election, frankly, we did win this election.

Here are the highlights from Monday's hearing: Former Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien abruptly pulled out of testifying on Monday after the committee was told that Stepien's wife was in labor.Instead, the committee showed Stepien's previously recorded testimony. The video showed that Trump was "growing increasingly unhappy" at the election results as the night wore on.Former Attorney General William Barr revealed in gripping detail how Trump was "as mad as I'd ever seen him" when the attorney general explained that the Justice Department would not take sides in the election.Election officials from Pennsylvania and Georgia testified, as well as a former Fox News politics editor. The Fox News politics editor detailed how the network determined when to call a race and why it called Arizona for Biden earlier than other networks.Donald Trump's closest campaign advisers, top government officials and even his family were dismantling his false claims of 2020 election fraud ahead of Jan. 6, but the defeated president was becoming "detached from reality" and clinging to outlandish theories to stay in power, the committee investigating the Capitol attack was told Monday.On election night itself, Trump was "growing increasingly unhappy" and refusing to accept the results as they came in, former campaign manager Bill Stepien said in testimony played before the House panel.Son-in-law Jared Kushner tried to steer Trump away from attorney Rudy Giuliani and his far-flung theories of voter fraud that advisers believed were not true. Trump would have none of it.The back-and-forth intensified in the run-up to Jan. 6. Former Justice Department official Richard Donoghue recalled breaking down one claim after another — from a truckload of ballots in Pennsylvania to a missing suitcase of ballots in Georgia — and telling Trump "much of the info you're getting is false.""He was becoming detached from reality," said former Attorney General William Barr, who called the voting fraud claims "bull (expletive)," "bogus" and "idiotic," and resigned in the aftermath. "I didn't want to be a part of it."The witness testimony was shown as the House committee focused on the "big lie," Trump's false claims of voter fraud that fueled the defeated Republican president's efforts to overturn the 2020 election and provoked a mob of his supporters to lay siege to the U.S. Capitol.The panel also provided new information about how Trump's fundraising machine collected some $250 million in the aftermath of the November election to keep fighting, mostly from small-dollar donations from Americans. One plea for cash went out 30 minutes before the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection."Not only was there the big lie, there was the big ripoff," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif.Chairman Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., opened Monday's hearing saying Trump "betrayed the trust of the American people" and "tried to remain in office when people had voted him out."As the hearings play out for the public, they are also being watched by one of the most important viewers, Attorney General Merrick Garland, who must decide whether his department can and should prosecute Trump. No sitting or former president has ever faced such charges."I am watching, I will be watching all of the hearings," Garland said Monday at a press briefing at the Justice Department. "I may not be able to watch all of it live, but I'm sure I will be watching all of it, and I can assure you the Jan. 6 prosecutors are watching all of the hearings as well."Biden was getting updates but not watching "blow by blow," said White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.Stepien was to be a key in-person witness Monday but abruptly backed out of appearing live because his wife went into labor. Stepien, who is still close to Trump, had been subpoenaed to appear. He is now a top campaign adviser to the Trump-endorsed House candidate, Harriet Hageman, who is challenging committee vice chair Liz Cheney in the Wyoming Republican primary.Video: Jan. 6 witnesses discuss so-called 'red mirage'The panel marched ahead after a delayed morning scramble, showing previously recorded testimony from the Republican aides as Trump latched on to repeated false claims about the election although those closest told him the theories of stolen ballots or rigged voting machines were not true.Stepien and senior adviser Jason Miller described how the festive mood at the White House on election night turned as Fox News announced Trump had lost the state of Arizona to Joe Biden, and aides worked to counsel Trump on what to do next.But he ignored their advice, choosing to listen instead to Giuliani, who was described as inebriated by several witnesses. Giuliani issued a general denial on Monday, rejecting "all falsehoods" he said were being said about him.Stepien said, "My belief, my recommendation was to say that votes were still being counted, it's too early to tell, too early to call the race."But Trump "thought I was wrong. He told me so."Barr, who had also testified in last week's blockbuster hearing, said that Trump was "as mad as I'd ever seen him" when the attorney general later explained that the Justice Department would not take sides in the election.Chairman Thompson and vice chair Cheney, led the hearing after last week's prime-time session drew nearly 20 million Americans to see its findings.For the past year, the committee has been investigating the most violent attack on the Capitol since the War of 1812 to ensure such an assault never happens again. Lawmakers hope to show that Trump's effort to overturn Biden's election victory posed a grave threat to democracy.Monday's hearing also featured live witnesses, including Chris Stirewalt, a former Fox News Channel political editor who declared on Election Night that Arizona was being won by Biden. Also appearing was the former U.S. attorney in Atlanta, BJay Pak, who abruptly resigned after Trump pressured Georgia state officials to overturn his defeat. Trump wanted to fire Pak as disloyal, but Pak stepped down after Trump's call became public in which he urged Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to "find" enough votes to overturn Biden's win in the state.The panel also heard from elections lawyer Benjamin Ginsberg who discussed the norms of election campaign challenges, and former Philadelphia City Commissioner Al Schmidt, the only Republican on the city's election board, who told the panel that regardless of how "fantastical" some of the claims that Trump and his team were making, the city officials investigated. He discussed facing threats after Trump criticized him in a tweet.As he mulls another White House run, Trump insists the committee's investigation is a "witch hunt." Last week he said Jan. 6 "represented the greatest movement in the history of our country."Nine people died in the riot and its aftermath, including a Trump supporter shot and killed by Capitol police. More than 800 people have been arrested in the siege, and members of two extremist groups have been indicted on rare sedition charges over their roles leading the charge into the Capitol.Additional evidence is to be released in hearings this week focusing on Trump's decision to ignore the outcome of the election and the court cases that ruled against him, and beckon supporters to Washington on Jan. 6 to overturn Biden's victory as Congress was set to certify the Electoral College results.Lawmakers left no doubt as to their own view of whether the evidence is sufficient to proceed."Once the evidence is accumulated by the Justice Department, it needs to make a decision about whether it can prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt the president's guilt or anyone else's," said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif, a panel member. "But they need to be investigated if there's credible evidence, which I think there is."

Here are the highlights from Monday's hearing:

Former Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien abruptly pulled out of testifying on Monday after the committee was told that Stepien's wife was in labor.
Instead, the committee showed Stepien's previously recorded testimony. The video showed that Trump was "growing increasingly unhappy" at the election results as the night wore on.
Former Attorney General William Barr revealed in gripping detail how Trump was "as mad as I'd ever seen him" when the attorney general explained that the Justice Department would not take sides in the election.
Election officials from Pennsylvania and Georgia testified, as well as a former Fox News politics editor. The Fox News politics editor detailed how the network determined when to call a race and why it called Arizona for Biden earlier than other networks.

Donald Trump's closest campaign advisers, top government officials and even his family were dismantling his false claims of 2020 election fraud ahead of Jan. 6, but the defeated president was becoming "detached from reality" and clinging to outlandish theories to stay in power, the committee investigating the Capitol attack was told Monday.

On election night itself, Trump was "growing increasingly unhappy" and refusing to accept the results as they came in, former campaign manager Bill Stepien said in testimony played before the House panel.

Son-in-law Jared Kushner tried to steer Trump away from attorney Rudy Giuliani and his far-flung theories of voter fraud that advisers believed were not true. Trump would have none of it.

The back-and-forth intensified in the run-up to Jan. 6. Former Justice Department official Richard Donoghue recalled breaking down one claim after another — from a truckload of ballots in Pennsylvania to a missing suitcase of ballots in Georgia — and telling Trump "much of the info you're getting is false."

"He was becoming detached from reality," said former Attorney General William Barr, who called the voting fraud claims "bull (expletive)," "bogus" and "idiotic," and resigned in the aftermath. "I didn't want to be a part of it."

The witness testimony was shown as the House committee focused on the "big lie," Trump's false claims of voter fraud that fueled the defeated Republican president's efforts to overturn the 2020 election and provoked a mob of his supporters to lay siege to the U.S. Capitol.

The panel also provided new information about how Trump's fundraising machine collected some $250 million in the aftermath of the November election to keep fighting, mostly from small-dollar donations from Americans. One plea for cash went out 30 minutes before the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection.

"Not only was there the big lie, there was the big ripoff," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif.

Chairman Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., opened Monday's hearing saying Trump "betrayed the trust of the American people" and "tried to remain in office when people had voted him out."

As the hearings play out for the public, they are also being watched by one of the most important viewers, Attorney General Merrick Garland, who must decide whether his department can and should prosecute Trump. No sitting or former president has ever faced such charges.

"I am watching, I will be watching all of the hearings," Garland said Monday at a press briefing at the Justice Department. "I may not be able to watch all of it live, but I'm sure I will be watching all of it, and I can assure you the Jan. 6 prosecutors are watching all of the hearings as well."

Biden was getting updates but not watching "blow by blow," said White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.

Stepien was to be a key in-person witness Monday but abruptly backed out of appearing live because his wife went into labor. Stepien, who is still close to Trump, had been subpoenaed to appear. He is now a top campaign adviser to the Trump-endorsed House candidate, Harriet Hageman, who is challenging committee vice chair Liz Cheney in the Wyoming Republican primary.

Video: Jan. 6 witnesses discuss so-called 'red mirage'

The panel marched ahead after a delayed morning scramble, showing previously recorded testimony from the Republican aides as Trump latched on to repeated false claims about the election although those closest told him the theories of stolen ballots or rigged voting machines were not true.

Stepien and senior adviser Jason Miller described how the festive mood at the White House on election night turned as Fox News announced Trump had lost the state of Arizona to Joe Biden, and aides worked to counsel Trump on what to do next.

But he ignored their advice, choosing to listen instead to Giuliani, who was described as inebriated by several witnesses. Giuliani issued a general denial on Monday, rejecting "all falsehoods" he said were being said about him.

Stepien said, "My belief, my recommendation was to say that votes were still being counted, it's too early to tell, too early to call the race."

But Trump "thought I was wrong. He told me so."

Barr, who had also testified in last week's blockbuster hearing, said that Trump was "as mad as I'd ever seen him" when the attorney general later explained that the Justice Department would not take sides in the election.

Chairman Thompson and vice chair Cheney, led the hearing after last week's prime-time session drew nearly 20 million Americans to see its findings.

For the past year, the committee has been investigating the most violent attack on the Capitol since the War of 1812 to ensure such an assault never happens again. Lawmakers hope to show that Trump's effort to overturn Biden's election victory posed a grave threat to democracy.

Monday's hearing also featured live witnesses, including Chris Stirewalt, a former Fox News Channel political editor who declared on Election Night that Arizona was being won by Biden.

Susan Walsh / AP Photo

Chris Stirewalt, former Fox News political editor, arrives to testify as the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol continues to reveal its findings of a year-long investigation, at the Capitol in Washington, Monday, June 13, 2022.

Also appearing was the former U.S. attorney in Atlanta, BJay Pak, who abruptly resigned after Trump pressured Georgia state officials to overturn his defeat. Trump wanted to fire Pak as disloyal, but Pak stepped down after Trump's call became public in which he urged Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to "find" enough votes to overturn Biden's win in the state.

The panel also heard from elections lawyer Benjamin Ginsberg who discussed the norms of election campaign challenges, and former Philadelphia City Commissioner Al Schmidt, the only Republican on the city's election board, who told the panel that regardless of how "fantastical" some of the claims that Trump and his team were making, the city officials investigated. He discussed facing threats after Trump criticized him in a tweet.

As he mulls another White House run, Trump insists the committee's investigation is a "witch hunt." Last week he said Jan. 6 "represented the greatest movement in the history of our country."

Nine people died in the riot and its aftermath, including a Trump supporter shot and killed by Capitol police. More than 800 people have been arrested in the siege, and members of two extremist groups have been indicted on rare sedition charges over their roles leading the charge into the Capitol.

Additional evidence is to be released in hearings this week focusing on Trump's decision to ignore the outcome of the election and the court cases that ruled against him, and beckon supporters to Washington on Jan. 6 to overturn Biden's victory as Congress was set to certify the Electoral College results.

Lawmakers left no doubt as to their own view of whether the evidence is sufficient to proceed.

"Once the evidence is accumulated by the Justice Department, it needs to make a decision about whether it can prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt the president's guilt or anyone else's," said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif, a panel member. "But they need to be investigated if there's credible evidence, which I think there is."

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